They will share changes on digital data driven governance in each respective country, especially data to ratifications and examples of data injustice.
They will explore where the differences in eager for the majority institutional contacts and history can lead to different approaches.
So from the three speakers then will be followed by one panelists who will give original perspective, the SDN perspective about the role of that AI driven governance during the pandemic.
And how ASEAN intergovernmental commission on human rights or HIHCR.
A can raise the importance of rights and respecting and post dynamic data driven governance to government from Indonesia we have Deborah Iran Christine, the project manager on data Policy and Governance at the foundations, from the Philippines, we have
Jamal Jacob, the legal and policy advisor at the foundation of media alternatives. The third speaker is 2010 Paris, we call her ploy execute the Director of Digital reach. And last but not least, her excellent see Miss you union union room I hope she's
joining from ASEAN intergovernmental commission on human rights recitative in 2022 and to talk to us on 24.
I would like to give you some house rules as well during the speaker and panel speaking, you might ask the question, or give common for people on site you can just raise your hand so I can see you so I can just point you after our during our q amp a sessions
for those who are online, please raise your hand, quote unquote, and wait for me to unmute you to speak, or for the,
for us here at the Secretariat to unmute you and please use bracket. If you would like to lose have to say something for example if you would like to questions use bracket questions record, and if you would like to comment record comment and comment.
I think that will be it.
Without further ado, I would like to give Debra.
The floor is your step into mosquito Hi everyone I'm Deborah I'm from diva foundation civil society organization based in Indonesia. So I'm going to talk briefly I'm going to use my 10 minutes to talk about pandemic data governance in Indonesia, and its
implications on post endemic data governance in the country. And the presentation is highly informed by the research that was conducted by my colleagues at TiVo foundation.
Next Christine.
So, the covert emergency has often seen big political decisions being taken overnight. In the name of a good, good and safe future and in the case of Indonesia.
There have been several changes as you can see here in digital data governance that have been enacted in response to the pandemic. A lot of the changes have legal and regulatory basis but a lot also do not so.
These include for example the portfolio into E, as a health surveillance app for tracking tracing and warnings. But later, the features of the app was expanded to include things like he health card faxing registration telemedicine and even recording immunization
history of our children. So the use of a digital app like Indonesia, which can only function in smartphones is actually problematic considering that a lot of Indonesians do not have an use smartphones.
However, due to their pursuit of efficiency the app is used nationwide, and is therefore can be saved as a form of exclusionary technology for a lot of population groups in Indonesia.
Aside from increased identification, the pandemic in Indonesia is also highlighted by increase data driven decision making in Policymaking covert 19 data and related official data are used as the basis to justify political decisions across sectors, including
restrictions on human mobility remote learning and school reopening as well as the resumption of economic activities in Indonesia where legal and regulatory frameworks for data governance in the public sectors are overlapping.
And the capacity of data processing public institutions are weak and the application systems are fragmented policy making and decision making that is based on data is actually problematic for a lot of times for a lot of locations in a lot of occasions.
It was founded, not only there was a mismatch. For example, between the health data that is collected by central government and the local governments, but the government themselves also acknowledge that their lack of transparency about coffee cases, and
the underreporting of covert cases and deaths was actually driven by the intention to avoid steering panic in the public.
Next Christine.
So these is just an overview, the interface of Indonesia which actually means Karen protecting Indonesian next.
So, we're using data justice as a framework to understand the implications of data intensive processes, during the pandemic.
As my Sita said the concept of data justice focuses on the societal implications of the unification, including data intensive processes during the pandemic, and it focuses on fairness equity and transparency during the entire data processes, from the
production of data collection distribution interpretation and the creation of products, services and policy decisions based on digital data.
In a lot of cases, issues of digital fights including inequality of access and digital literacy actually shaped the experiences of data in justices for people.
So I'm taking two specific cases of dynamic driven change in Indonesia. The first one is the function clip of our contact tracing up, and then the second one data driven policy decisions and public service delivery and use the data justice framework to
understand the injustice this that work resulted from these changes. So, first of all, regarding the function creep of Indonesia as you can see they're starting end of 2021 actually.
The app is integrate was integrated into 15, different consumer oriented apps, including right healing app and banking movie ticket booking app, and also FinTech app with the intention to increase accessibility of the contact tracing up to as much of
Indonesia as possible. At one point, the government even planned to input e wallet into the app.
There was also a plan by the government to make the new me as a super app, which can include a lot of health care services, including preventive and curative functions.
So, all of these policy narratives was justified by the narrative of efficiency and practicality, for the provision of Health Care Services, because with, with more than 15 million users on Android only the app actually is a very useful surveillance tool,
and also have very, very valuable data to monetize.
However, the integration of the app to consumer oriented apps is actually beyond the covert 19 is actually beyond its mandate beyond its legal basis, and to have done that without prior consent from the data subjects will actually lead to the loss of
autonomy over data handling and a breach of confidentiality.
In the data subjects. And in the case of how data affects in certificate AP is used to determine whether or not someone can enter a public place or called the DDT digital gaming the system actually discriminate.
accessing public service in public places. And we can also see instances of data in justices in data driven policy decisions and public service delivery in Indonesia.
For example, in education sector policy decisions for remote learning and school reopening actually rely on covert 19 data, and the education core data or what we call the public.
However, the inaccuracy and unsynchronized of the education Core Data actually have has lead to some cases in which educators and the students cannot access the subsidies that they are actually entitled to.
So this is either because they are not registered in the core data, or when they are registered. It wasn't an accurate and therefore they were not categorized as someone who is entitled to the public service.
And these instances of data driven policy decisions and public service delivery, that are not supported by accurate comprehensive and integrated data can lead to misrepresentation of reality but also further more distribution of public service.
And next Christine.
So, the data governance issues that I discussed just now are likely to stay even post but infant post pandemic Indonesia, and there are there are a couple of ideas or initiatives that the government can take and also with the help with the private with
the health by the private sector and civil society organizations to make a post Colby data governance more just and more rights respecting for a lot of people.
First of all, classic issues with the government of Indonesia is actually the overlapping regulations and the lack of institutional capacity of public institutions in government public data, which needs to be addressed as, as soon as possible.
And.
Sorry.
And then, the government also needs to finalize the protect data, personal data protection bill which is currently at the final phase of legislative process.
And there's also need to assess the impact of particularly new me. And also, if it's really nice found to be able to be used.
If it can be justified that the benefits of using particularly new beyond the pandemic context can be can be justified, and also the digital security of the app can be guaranteed, then maybe we can think of using dynamic content as a feature to be included
in the app and other data technology. data technologies, actually.
And also, like I said, there's a need for the civil society to be involved in the CO creation of data technologies and from the point of private companies, we are seeing that there will be an increasing collaboration between the between the government
with the private sector actors in the development and use data technologies and therefore, there needs to be clarity on the boundary of role of the private companies in those activities.
I think I'll stop there mosquito. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for writing. Thank you for for picturing the Indonesia experience, and how government is really pushing the digital transformation including its gaps.
Do I think we know the intention is very clear. We would like to move to Philippines, Jim, are there.
Yeah.
Can you hear me. Oh yes, we can hear you very clearly, okay. You're.
Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you, Shiva, and very interesting insights from there were such an honor and pleasure to be part of this by them and to be working again with the foundation.
Okay, so
let me describe the slide here.
Okay, so like most countries in the world, the Philippines also turn to digital solutions to manage the coordinating pandemic including women challenges it brought about both directly and indirectly.
So when we talk about direct challenges we're looking at those relating to contact racing testing and backseat administration, with contact racing I would say that we had an overabundance of digital contact facing applications, especially during the first
several months of the pandemic. Apart from Stacy bH. The so called official contact racing App of the Philippine government, other government agencies came up with their own apps, and then joining them were many local government units and we're talking
about cities here, when they say policies and in some cases even provinces that partnered with the private sector in developing their own contact racing apps.
Within when vaccine supply started trickling in similar public private partnerships, we're just we're.
Yeah, we're responsible for the development of and maintenance rather of mobile apps and online platforms used for vaccine administration, and then soon after the need to prove people's vaccination status came up.
And here comes the two principal digital vaccination passports, both managed by our health ministry, the Department of Health, but are for some reason, issued by two different entities, there is a vaccine pH, which is issued by the Department of information
and Communications Technology.
And then there is the bureau quarantines international Certificate of vaccination.
Now when we talk about internet challenges or indirect impact, we can see there the significant effect or impact of the pandemic.
Or what it has had on people's over or way of life, so at the top of the list, or right near the police would be.
Those economic hardships that eating negatively and gave rise to the cause of the stick health protocols enforced by the government so many businesses, either close shop or let go of their workers, leaving mainly clamoring for government aid.
Now to facilitate the distribution of financial assistance, some government agencies and even local government units also relied on online portals and platforms.
There were also tie ups, we are in money issuers in the distribution of these resources. And then another example of a indirect effect was the difficulty faced by the government in in repatriating overseas Filipino workers.
So websites and then online portals were also used to manage. Very third or facilitate barely third, including the release of their test results, the monitoring of their movements upon arrival here in the Philippines and then enforcing that quarantine
protocols of the, of the government.
Now, given the trove of data involved in all these initiatives. It's obvious that a sound data governance, what's necessary, starting with effective and timely policies.
Unfortunately, there was very little of them, even to this day, the few that did come out were error, were full of errors, and then were never really implemented properly.
So our ICP ministry for instance came out with guidelines for vetting ICP services products and applications meant for government use in its coordinating initiatives, but there is hardly any evidence that those guidelines were actually used.
In fact, the government was already endorsing requiring the use of its official contact racing out long before it had come up with these so called guidelines.
And then there was also a joint issue once where our Data Protection Authority and the health ministry aimed at regulating the processing of personal data.
During the pandemic, including. And then this policy included a requirement for the registration of ICP solutions and ICT and technologies together with their developers, with the Data Protection Authority the national privacy commission.
So same thing happened. We haven't seen any actual proof that it was actually enforced, for instance, all these apps, developed by local government units by other government agencies where they these were in fact registered with the MPC.
And so, in so many cases, we also saw a lot of government officials, government agencies committing a lot of what I would consider or what most would consider data privacy violations during the pandemic.
And no one, not one of them, that even a reprimand you know from the authorities.
And so, What happened as a result of this
problem. Or situation we are sorry.
Okay, so what happened was a lot of course of data in justices.
The government was quite heavy handed in the way to handle the pandemic, giving the military and the police more prominent roles than even healthcare professionals from policy making all the way down to my name checkpoints and enforcing curfews impacted
pretty much the same way.
much the same way. When it practically force the population to embrace all these different systems and technologies, introduced as part of its pandemic management solution.
So this eventually led to a lot of negative consequences, many of which we are expected to experience in the, in the long term.
One, the people had very little control over their personality but when the government said you had to use this or that quantum facing app, and share your Deepak.
And of course for goal your privacy. You do it, of course, either that you don't get to enter its office premises, you don't get to go out and travel.
And then even open your business, in some cases, so it's this very also there is very little that you can do. If you want to question the security of this apps for example, or the proportionality or of the amount of personal data that they collect and
process visa v. The declared purpose of their collection.
No, perhaps, and I mean thing that effect, but an effect. Nonetheless, was that those who had little or no choice but to go outside of their homes to work and earn a living.
They were the ones most often put in this difficult situation. It was their data that became most vulnerable to exploitation misuse and even loss. And make no mistake about it.
They did get exploited. They did get misused. And along the way, they found most likely that loss due to the contact racing data has been consistently link to a lot of unsolicited calls and messages.
It was an issue during our recently conclude the national elections and then right now with a massive surge in spam and fishing, text messages that people received every day there once again thrust into the spotlight.
Some people have in women also ended up becoming the target of harassment and unwanted advances after sharing their contact information for contact tracing purposes.
Those whose status is either covert 19 positive or close guantanamo bay.
In case where even necessary health worker.
Those at least whose information, we leak or disclose unnecessarily became the subject of verbal abuse and even physical harm. Now this key articulate data ecosystem also affected Filipino workers working overseas.
There was a time that many of them would not return to their certain countries at least, because the Philippines had no single source for its vaccination certificates.
So, some countries did not recognize, or would not recognize the vaccination cards issued by local government units, because that was the status quo for a long time.
Now the likelihood that all these will be around for quite some time is made possible by another key issue. And that is the lack of accountability on the part of of airing parties are those meeting all these violations and making all these mistakes, whether
to this day, now premise and that we then have a very strong reason to believe that more and perhaps even greater data and justice. This will crop up in the future, fund function creep as mentioned already by Deborah earlier, or the usable that data collected
by the government and the private sector will likely rear its ugly head in the in the future.
It will prove to be a lot of headache for our Data Protection Authority and data protection offices working both in the private sector and in the government, and so will the increase in prevalence of scams and all these other cyber crimes.
the numerous databases, put up by the government that have been a very liberal use actually exempt us needs or security liabilities. Now to keep this from happening, or to at least mitigate the impact sound data governance must be put in place and should
become the norm, the government should lead by example in the private sector, it should follow suit. There should be transparency to the extent that people are fully aware of what happens to their data, and who to how to handle in case they are mishandled
and then they should also be some level of people empowerment, so that the people strikes relative to their personal data are upheld. And in case there are regulations that people need to have access to the mechanisms through which they are able to obtain
proper and effectively. So that's it for me right now.
Thank you very much and I think some several key points from Indonesia and the Philippines, the lack of accountability in many dimension, including the platforms and a fragmented government policies, especially the personal data protections.
So we have heard the stories from Indonesia and the Philippines, we will go for the regional perspective, ploy.
The floor is yours.
Thank you, sir.
So, employee, and it's a pleasure to be here in this session. Despite one of the organizer was so rude to me this morning. So I'm going to talk about his contact tracing in my session in my talk, sorry.
So when the government in Southeast Asia, roll out his contact dressing up in this region in respond to the pandemic. Is this the first time where I did start a project like this happen at, at around the same time throughout the region.
Obviously data of the individual is what that feed the initiative to happen. However, the initiative were problematic since the very beginning, because of them share the same problems regarding, lack of transparency and lack of policy enforcement.
For many of them we don't know how to store contractors in system function and treated data or people that they collected.
Moreover, is because I'm sorry can you change the slide please. Sorry.
Yeah.
So, moreover is because of the majority of Southeast Asia don't have a law that protect personal data from state authority. So the initiative in many countries in the region.
Haven't been implemented carefully with safety in terms of personal data or people being peddled prioritize. Next please.
So I'll give the example of how people personal data has been under risk. So an example of how these contact racing I'm going wrong.
Okay first Singapore. Winters together first roll out in 2020, the government's data that would it be used for any purpose, outside of hell purpose, however they subsequently passed a law.
In February, 2021 to legally allowed to use of data from place together for criminal investigation, without a need for any records to public consultation and this allowed the police to access the data directly without a warrant.
they were mentioned that are related to his digital contact racing scheme involving our 1.3 million user complete in 2021 last year, and the government did not show any responsibility over instead are all in Thailand the contact tracing marginal source
course. It was released without an open source, open source license, raising a question over the credibility of the source codes and ness in the Philippines is like what john mentioned a moment ago stay safe.ph was honestly, it was first row our GPS tracking
tracking and the feature was even though the feature was later removed.
But AB remain in Hanover private company who is the, who is the developer for extensive period of time in which the company can't take care of the qualitative data as well before being transferred to the government.
Next Malaysia. There's a controversy. Malaysia is like a scandal because my sister Tara, I was first developed by the government for free, but then it was given to a private company my SJ causing a scandal is still ongoing and Cambodia.
Next please.
Sorry. So, Cambodia, when it was launched his own with digital contact rising up, stop calling 900 February last year, which is like a QR code base.
Contact racing app. There was not much information on how to collect that data was treated, but it wasn't a news that I was like being a legend, for being used by the Chinese government to monitor the citizen who travel between two countries.
And in return, the Chinese government would help the Cambodian government to upgrade the existing system to be more efficient we support from Huawei. Yeah.
Yeah. And next slide please.
This combination. So, started in Singapore. Before spreading around Southeast Asia, and other country.
Other countries saw that is a good idea. Without realizing that the context in in that country are actually different Singapore was able to launch trace together token later in order to circumvent the technical limitation, when operating at a store contact
dressing up in a smartphone. The mode, the model of giving a contact Christine talking to every individual is not something easy for all the country to follow.
This is because it would be costly for them.
Compared to Singapore when technology is homegrown, and there's a geographical advantage, as well as a small island with around 6 million population. So in the technology remain in a smartphone in most of the country does a discrimination, discrimination,
There's a discrimination, discrimination, as not all the people can afford buying a smartphone.
So it has a problem later. For example, Indonesia in December last year the government announced that it would remove the operation license and find those who did not participate in the scheme is prompted concern and Moses and especially those who run
The biggest sample is Thailand. So Thailand in 2020 when it was first rolled out the government as he tried to push everybody in the country to use the contact racing app, and they went too far to announce that those who don't participate in it will be
put in jail, in which they have to apologize later that is a mistake.
At the public abroad.
Next slide, please.
So,
when the situation is getting back to normal. How expert in Singapore, Indonesia, and the flippin stated a possibility of contact racing app didn't play much row in terms of the pandemic control, even though the country was able to implement a successful
implementation house but in Singapore us to say it is unclear how much extra benefit trace together provide beyond showing evidence of vaccine status when seeking entry to renew or events for my health minister opened up the Philippines as well also similar
similar thing that they said that PS had virtually no impact on controlling department in the country. And it seems to act as a digital law, when people enter public places and doesn't have any significant significant beyond that role.
Also it's only like 6.5 million people out the whole country of 100 million people, which is causes only like around 6% of the whole population that adopted the contact racing house but Indonesia have claimed that the L, they have the app did not provide
any benefit is religious and who controlling the pandemic in the country, as well. A number of how expert have also stated that the app had a limited role in bringing about a decrease in the number of the infected case.
Some of them ended up sadly disappear from the scene. And we don't know what happened with the data they collected.
Live in Thailand Marcia and Tasha not pass information is available, so it no bit. I'm not sure whether it's worth it for you know the cause of implemented this initiative is coming from like people tax money and gathering the Messiah or people in this
without a clear result of how helpful it is for the pandemic control. So not even in Singapore, where the approach was adopted successfully. And I would say that a problem of this is like lacking of strong mechanism, strong legal mechanism at a national
level they can protect personal data or people from this kind of government initiative.
And it's not just the law but how is enforced as well.
Okay, thank you very much. I think we have a mega scene in the regional perspective we will go to the regional organizations.
Hon.
You unit, are you there okay. It will you will will perhaps share with us how I see an intergovernmental commission on human rights can raise the importance of respecting and post pandemic data driven governance to the government's, it will use, the floor
is yours.
Can I be allowed to share my screen, please.
Okay. Yes.
I prepared my presentation on still disabled.
Just a moment.
Okay.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, you can try.
All right. Thank you very much for having me in this important event.
So I would like to introduce first the organization just very quick, the ASEAN intergovernmental commission human rights is regional human rights mechanism that was established in, when the in 2009, based on the article 14 of the charter.
We have 14 mandates and we are guided by the work of iy of ASEAN non interference evolutionary approach consulting and consensus consultative and it is intergovernmental body.
We report to the ASEAN foreign ministers every year and we meet, according to our to our we meet twice in a year but now becoming a four times in air.
This is the main date of it, there are 14 minutes of it but I would like to make it more succinct and to make it easier for stakeholders to monitor our work.
First, it has a mandate to come up with standard setting cooperation and policy supports protection of human rights humorous strategy research capacity building dialogue and engagement.
So if you ask me, What is your function in relation to the protection of data privacy data privacy, then these are some of the six areas that you can seek more accountability, or money or, to what extent, it has been performing it works in relation to
data privacy or right to privacy.
And these are some of the representatives, we call it representatives not commissioners, because according to the to our, the representatives from them, ASEAN countries coming from the States and report to the state only Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia.
We had domestic selection process in which some of us work independently including Indonesia.
So these are the representative of 2022 2024 and this is my second term in it.
It has been criticized of not having production mandates.
For not able to receive complaints mechanism complaints, but now we have a complaint mechanism in which member, or which is civil society and victims can come forward and send the complaints to either.
We also have two platforms in which the complaints and issues will be discussed, both in the level of either or the, the level of Commission and the level of member states.
So, on the right side this is the steps on how victims and civil society can submit complaints to do it, I will leave this presentation for the organizer of the show you can revisit this is the platform in which we can talk about human rights situation
of individual countries.
And now I would like to go into the topic on the data privacy and data governance in 2019 Iker organize consultation on freedom of expression opinion based on the article 23 of the ASEAN human rights declaration, among others, participants consists of
civil society or academic as well as from as a member states and a sense of nobody's come up with number of concerns. One of the concerns was about digital rights.
Well, participants expressed the concern in relation to data collection, attention, because the massive data breaches happening in the region.
Digital sort of feelings, lack of access to internet digital attacks against our civil society, their concerns about artificial intelligence and big data, and matters as routed in state, and forward secrecy, number of recommendations, come up.
Was that was the interpretation of state obligation
in relation to data privacy and data protection offline and online.
These are some of the recommendation from the participants. We are going to have another consultation, digging up more on digital rights, especially on freedom of expression and opinion.
Online into 2022 we supposed to do it in 2021 but we
are there are a number of super glue in me and Marshall, we have to rearrange our activities. Accordingly, but hopefully in this year we will be able to address the concerns of many of the top protection and privacy.
If you look at the issue of data and privacy has been the concerns of the US and member states
in different forms ascend membership, as the ASEAN member states have come up with number of regulation or laws or any policies. So it's very different in terms of forms, but I just would like, I'm not going to read all but these are some of the lists
of how Member States address the issue.
From the perspective of legal framework or policy framework or.
Mix it basically on rules.
This is so 10 countries, all together I think some of speakers mentioned already about this in ASEAN.
There is one sector or body responsible for this. It is that the communication and information technology ministers meeting. So this is a this is a network of ministers ministries of information and technology in 10 countries, they come together and meet
every year, they have a working group they have a working level, and more technical groups and ministers meeting call Bellman Bellman come up with a framework on digital data governance in 2017 before the corporate 19 to vote, with the aim of enhancing
data management facility that harmonization of data regulation among ASEAN member states, and to promote internal RC and flows of the data. So, into before with 19 the focus of data governance, were more on economic digital economy.
So after Corbett 19 or during puppet 19, some
attention move a little bit, but still within a similar framework.
under the framework of digital data governance ASEAN come up with for strategic priorities of digital data governance include data life cycle and ecosystem cross border data flows digitalization and emerging technologies legal and regular regulatory and
policy. And within this for the our four initiatives to operationalize. These strategic priorities. It will include as an data classification framework cross border data flows mechanism.
Digital Innovation Forum and data protection and prophecy forum. If we I'm sorry, quicker, two minutes left for the interaction with the audience. Sure, yes.
So this is the summary of the framework of data governance in ASEAN looking at four areas at the moment.
And ASEAN also has a framework on that the personal data protection adopted in 2016, again this is before the corporate 19, they manage to come together, among us and member states to agree on personal data protection principles to include concert notification
proposes and you can you can see this all principles mentioned and agreed by all ASEAN member states.
And this is the master plan until 2020 at the moment Delmon also come up with another master plan on ICT to make ASEAN digitally connected that's the jargon, of the member states.
So, this is my last slide.
At the moment we.
It has not been engaged by Parliament in relation or in developing the policies in relation to the production or in, in, in general on freedom of expression and opinion online.
That is why, in, in the next workshop we are, we will be organizing. We are going to engage with element to include the perspective of human rights into the work that's.
Thank you very much. Thank you and I think it will be very interesting to see how your conversations with telman and all the ministers about the regulatory framework.
So, I would like to have I have one question from the remote participant Do you have question.
Two questions can use a three questions. Yeah.
You can direct your questions.
You can go there. So, as your first and your second and third.
Hi Jennifer.
Just on yes okay yeah Hi, my name is Asha hammer Johnny, I have a question for you, you know you mentioned in one of your slides about digital attacks against civil society, so I'd really like to hear your perspective on what you mean by that maybe you
could elaborate that'd be great. Thank you.
And the woman in pink.
Hi, I'm you know from laser.
First of all, thank you so much for the presentations and sharing I think it was very very informative and concise seeing all the Southeast Asian countries in one go.
I have two questions.
First, from, I guess your personal point of view, if you could redesign the post pandemic data governance, how would you want to do it. And the second question is, since the pandemic was kind of like unprecedented and the government took very reactive
measures.
What should the preventive measures be so that we are prepared for the next pandemic or any other disasters. Thank you.
Thank you very much. What's your name, sorry.
My name is Amina me now okay thank you i mean i think i think all the question first panels here, and then I can enter in sir.
Thank you, Jennifer.
So I'm opening the mask for clarity.
So good afternoon. So my name is a gauzy, of course, this is an action related discussion I'm from India, because just recently finished a major program with on data injustice and data advancing data justice.
So mostly when we talk about this subject, it is against the government, all the time the government is doing this government is wrong governance at fall which is fine but of course, there could be loopholes that could be errors, mistakes and all.
And also one issue we found is related to the capacity of the government officials at various levels to deal with the proper data governance practices how to manage how to not to manage sensitivity, because this is also about capacity building, you know,
in the larger framework of data governance, so probably, you know, engaging on those data capacities or the government officials are not at the top level, so I think it should start from the bottom levels because of it that is where the community exists
in the local governments exists, I think that is should we also be be a part of a discussion and helping out authorities is also very important rather than only criticizing and that is just my observation.
Thank you so the capacity development to the government also be part of the discussion I think we can have that discussion later, I will review the questions from into Jen remotely.
I hope you you write it down I saw that all my panelists is writing down something.
So her question will be does your government agency encourage the third party to develop the tracing app and bundle it with their commercial services, and how to prove the Philippine government misuse that they're from decreasing app that perhaps a question
for Jim. So, I think I would like to go backwards. So I start with w universe and then jam and then fly then Deborah when, the floor is yours.
Thank you for the questions, digital effects, I think there are a number of differences.
How person had been attacked digitally, before and after or during a pandemic. So for instance, during the conference during the conversation we had in 2019,
Like, Audrey French used by both.
Well, government, never been proven to be doing the point of defense to individual, but other individual, but we do not know, because there are a lot of fake accounts made.
But, but during the hobbit 19, for instance, young, young women come to me in the close webinar, telling me that how their life had been ruined because of the, The open up but boxing.
I think that's the the term, and how they have been exposed to number of.
They call it errors. So they. She did not want to go out for any activity so she
stopped schooling, because he couldn't handle all the words coming to come into her country member in detail, but I think the room, people in the room know what kind of, and how different digital effect for before and after hobbit 19 two men and women
and young people.
Um, number of people so come to me
that. So for instance, in.
I'm not, I'm not going to use the example of other countries but my country, my country, Indonesia, number of discussion for instance, had been there, what they call it.
Technically, the connection had been disturbed.
With the, so they can stop the conversation, especially when they talk about something very sensitive.
There are some people I know young people from other countries also approached me, telling me that they were, they were had us through social media by certain accounts, because they make a comments on policy government policies inclination to have it
19. So these are some of the, maybe, very small little example of digital effects, out, out there, there are a number of different types of digital effects that need to be documented.
Well, I think that's my question to me. Yeah, yeah we unless you would like to answer the others, quickly, because we only have like 10 minutes and Hong Kong level of data governance, I think, in my position right now in the future.
I would like, I do not want to preempt, what we should do, I think we should listen more to the victims, as well as the civil society, the voices that had not been hurt in ASEAN.
So, I think it is very important to provide.
I would like to address this from the perspective of procedures, I think it is very important to provide a platform in which we can hear the concerns interest and the need, as well as, as well as rights for victims for stakeholders from all kinds of people.
We have in Indonesian. Thank you again goes to you I think you can first the answer the question from being to Jen. Ok.
Okay, so does the government agencies encourage third party still development eclipsing apps and bundle it with commercial services as far as if you're looking for a sponsor, I have not heard of any particular instance where in the government actually
encourage this particular practice.
There are plenty of instances where a government agency or local government unit collaborated with a private sector entity to develop to develop all these different apps or to facilitate the distribution of either like like what I mentioned earlier, but
as far as this particular issue is concerned, I have not heard of a specific instance, I would say though that it was also during the pandemic that the government through its Data Protection Authority relax the rules, so far as data sharing is concerned,
because it released administrative issuance making the use of so called data sharing agreements optional on the part of entities both government and the private sector, so they can now enter into these leadership arrangements, without having to execute
a leadership.
The second part of the question is regarding how to how to prove Yeah, admittedly, it's very hard to do so, what we can only point to, I said was the site and basically any third party looking outside looking in, is 2.2 instances where in the government
or government officials, or government agencies mishandled information and for instance, we had our Philippine coast varied in its effort to release and mass, the results of the test results are completely I think best results of all these seafarers Filipina
seafarers working abroad and then returning to the Philippines, instead of releasing to them individually the results of their tests, they actually came up with a list and posted it on their website, which is something that many people for them out for
and then eventually they took it on so there are a lot of instances of government agencies misuse or mishandling rather that information but but as far as actively misusing them or using them for some nefarious purpose, it's very hard to grow and and
i think that's also why it's more dangerous because the misuse doesn't have have to happen now. It can happen tomorrow it can happen a year from now because the data is already there.
And then some quick comments on the game, again, because I have to also connect to the local hub I think we can go to fly a plane can answer, sorry, Jim, we can answer this.
Any questions on the capacity development of the government should it be part of the discussions and I think they were I can answer I mean, ask questions.
Okay, so I will just be sure.
I think that um for for the redesign post pandemic right. So, I think that the government have to prioritize that are people actually like doing some risk assessment or something like that.
It would help but you know, Southeast Asian government, Noah prioritize human right anyway. So, yeah.
I'm the unbelievable you you talk to them through Tell me.
Okay, I think, Deborah can answer I mean our question, thank you guys for, I mean every question so I think if it's up to me to redesign the pandemic pose data governance, because I come from the civil society I mean there are a lot of ways to address
the question but because I come from the civil society I think I would highlight the point of the issue of CO creation, even for the design of contact tracing app, it's important actually for the, for the, the process, do not be opaque, but citizens should
have the opportunities to engage in the formulation of the policies of conduct racing app but also the design of contact racing app. And in the case of Indonesia impact assessment is not part of the design process of the contact racing app.
And that's why the actual impacts on the citizens were not expected from the point of the design, the design phase, and the second one I would, again, from the perspective of civil society, bottom up strategies for data collection, I think it's important,
by for example involving citizens initiatives like crowdsourcing data.
It will be important to have compared comparison between the comparison to the official data that's produced by the government. And I think it's important, like, if the government knows that their capacity in data governance is low, is weak to involve
citizens to, to, to complement, and fill that gap in data governance, and I think the other question do okay okay I got an
empty one. No, no, you can answer. Okay. What should the preemptive measure be in anticipating the next pandemic to, I think, in the case of Indonesia it's important.
It's important that we have accurate integrated and comprehensive database which is currently not the case. We have scalar databases. Each ministries have their own databases and even different level of government.
Government governments, different administration levels have different databases so it's actually one of the factors why you can say, we were not handling the pandemic.
Very well, thank you Amina. Thank you. Thank you, Deborah, please we can feel a contact at the local have.
There is a question from the. Okay. One more question i our community engagement in different stakeholders for data protection for government monitoring and controlling perspective in Southeast Asia within companies in the Western world.
So, the question would be, do you think it's different from the western with the Southeast Asia. On the data protection and government monitoring, I think, short short questions could be directed to ploy and it will you use the one from original ideas
It is different actually because in the Europe at the EU, they actually came up with a long document about how contact tracing apps should assay prioritize.
People data. Okay, so it's it's different from the European Union for the GDPR.
We Yun.
Well, very clear but we don't have GDPR.
We don't have a guy. Well there is a guideline on data protection but how it is how it has been implemented to as a region.